Oral Optimization with Dr. Staci Whitman | Longevity Optimization Podcast
In this episode of the Longevity Optimization Podcast, Dr. Staci Whitman explores the vital link between oral health and overall longevity. She shares her professional journey transitioning from traditional dentistry to a holistic, prevention-focused approach, with special attention to the importance of education in pediatric dental care.
The conversation delves into the core principles of biological dentistry, emphasizing the powerful impact of diet and the oral microbiome on dental and systemic health. Dr. Whitman discusses the significance of testing for oral dysbiosis and offers practical insights into managing common oral health problems through nutrition and supplementation.
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Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to Oral Health and Longevity
02:57 Transitioning from Traditional to Holistic Dentistry
05:50 Understanding Biological Dentistry
09:02 The Impact of Diet on Oral Health
12:05 Testing and Analyzing the Oral Microbiome
15:01 Treating Oral Dysbiosis and Maintaining Balance
17:58 Addressing Common Oral Health Issues
20:55 The Role of Nutrition in Oral Health
24:09 The Importance of Minerals and Supplements
26:53 Conclusion and Future Directions in Oral Health
36:28 The Importance of Salivary Analysis in Biohacking
40:01 Nitric Oxide: The Link Between Oral and Cardiovascular Health
44:09 Fluoride: A Controversial Topic in Dental Health
57:14 The Evolution of Human Jaw Structure and Its Implications
Transcript
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (00:00.066)
All right, well, Dr. Stacy Whitman, it's such a pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much. I'm really excited to talk about oral health and how it can influence longevity.
It is such an important topic and I have so many questions for you. So you, of course, so you were specializing originally in all biological dentistry, oral health. You're also certified from the Institute for Vontral Medicine, right? So you have a very vast understanding of human health in general. And now you're doing a lot of pediatrics, yeah?
I'm here.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (00:32.684)
Yes, started out, my background is I started out in a traditional dental setting training, like we all need to, and I do think that's really important. And I practiced as a general dentist for several years and was really dissatisfied in my career choice because I was so disheartened with how much chronic disease kept coming through my door, no matter what I threw at it. And it was still in the days when I
practiced more of the drill-filled bill mentality, which is a little cynical, but really a lot of dentists were trained just to fix problems and not to look upstream and to work on prevention with patients and education. And so I thought, how do I salvage this career? And I was very interested in holistic health, and that's the way I was living at the time, but it didn't relate or match up to how I was practicing in my work world.
So I thought, how do I salvage this career? I need to get upstream. And that is with children and educating and starting things from a preventative lens before they become issues. And so that's through education, through the parents and the kids. And so I went back and got my pediatric certification. So I'm board certified in pediatric dentistry. And I also now have my board certification in integrative dentistry and naturopathic dentistry as well.
I love that. You know, it sounds like most of my friends are doctors, like medical doctors, and all of them, you know, started out in traditional Western medicine, but all the ones that I'm friends with have now moved to either their own practices or kind of doing something else. They've left like the system of medicine because they just weren't able to make the impact that they wanted to within that system. And I haven't really talked to nearly as much dentists about this, as many dentists about this, but it sounds like
There can be some overlap with that as well. You mentioned what is drill?
DR. STACI WHITMAN (02:27.65)
Drill fill bill, yeah. So molar mechanics. essentially you just see a problem and fix it and see a problem and fix it. And you're just doing that over and over again. And unfortunately it can be that turn and burn type of schedule too. So you don't have a lot of time with your patients and you're really just putting out fires all day long. And that just didn't resonate with me. That wasn't why I went into healthcare. I went into, I think we all go into it to help.
people, but you get caught up in the system. many people are having that aha moment, including dentists. But dentists have a lot of burnout, as all health care providers do. But there is a lot of depression in our field, and that is for this reason. A lot of people don't like the dentist. It's an uncomfortable situation. can try our hardest to make it.
as pleasant as possible that at the end of the day, it isn't a desired place to be. And so that can really weigh on people. And you just feel like you're not helping and moving the needle. And so I do know more people are moving toward a different practice model. One, where you take more of a root cause approach, looking at biomarkers and testing, and really treating people like individuals. So bio individual, patient centric medicine.
where we're creating individualized treatment plans instead of treating everyone the same. And so it's much more satisfying for me, but I love working with the kids because I see them not having to deal with these issues that perhaps their parents did. And then that translates throughout the family. So if you educate the parents, the children will be healthy, but then that translates to their cousins and their aunts and uncles in the community around them too. So it's really a beautiful thing to see.
And because we do look upstream and we're able to spend more time with patients, we really do see them getting optimized.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (04:28.078)
I love that 100 % it's time, it's uncovering the issue, what is the root cause? And in our society, we've really just separated every system, right? So I would have to imagine, I can't wait to go into this a little deeper, but I would have to imagine like just like your gut isn't separate from your brain, it's like your teeth are also part of the body in your oral microbiome. So I can't wait to get into that, but before we do, will you just explain what is biological dentistry?
Yes, I will. There's different names you're going to hear thrown around. There's biological dentistry, holistic dentistry, functional dentistry, integrative dentistry, and they really do all overlap. There are some differences. But biological dentistry is generally looking at using biomimetic materials and trying to do things in as close to a biological way as possible, allowing the body's innate ability to heal itself.
So trying to find more alternative modalities for treatment. I generally consider myself a little bit more of a functional dentist, which is just using more metrics and markers and data sort of as functional medicine doctors might as well, but they're very closely tied. And I do see a big movement, especially in the younger dentist coming out of school toward practicing differently, which is really reassuring.
And so again, it's been extremely rewarding. know, oral health and oral disease is the top chronic disease globally. Cavities are the top disease in children and adults globally as are gum disease and periodontal disease. And it's preventable. Humans were not meant to have these diseases in our mouth. Cavities didn't really pop up in our species until about 13,000 years ago, which is when we started to farm and our food
So we were eating more grains and processing foods more. And the same goes with gum disease. That's really newer, we think, based on anthropological studies of about 20,000 years ago, where microbiome shifted. And so unfortunately, we've sort of been evolving not in the right direction with our microbes. There's a lot of data to support that our oral microbiome has shifted.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (06:44.94)
And we can get into this, but how does the oral microbiome affect the gut microbiome and vice versa? There is a bidirectional relationship. And then also, how do these all relate to the sinus microbiome and the oral gut brain access, too, is really important. And that's something we can touch upon. But I think both medicine and dentistry need to start focusing on microbes first and approaching all of our health care that way. We're learning so much about how important these little
little species are to our well-being. And that includes oral health. And so the oral microbiome is something that many functional dentists focus on, and that includes salivary analysis and testing.
I love that. mean, we're more, we're more microbes than we are like human. Yeah. So I love that. You said something really interesting that cavities and essentially like gum diseases were not really a thing, you know, many years ago and you would have to imagine they didn't have nearly as many tools for oral health as we have now. Right. So what's with that?
Yes, we are. By a lot.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (07:49.698)
Yeah, well, it's our food. mean, that's what shifted. So we do see some ancient fillings about 13,000 years ago and up to modern day using things like rock and gold and other metals. And I mean, can't even imagine what that experience was like. But our food system changed.
would probably be healthier for you than mercury.
IOMEMETIC. yes, absolutely.
So that's the whole thing. Well, definitely.
That's the whole thing. but it's the food. Our food has changed. really is it. Dr. Mark Hyman has spoken about how our food industry has changed in the book Food Fix, which I think was a wonderful depiction of the issues going on with our food system. But we see it firsthand in the mouth. So often before we see other systemic issues from our diet, we're seeing it in the mouth. And that is...
DR. STACI WHITMAN (08:45.11)
in the form of demineralization or cavities or gum disease or bone loss run or teeth periodontal disease. And really what cavities are are a sign of malnutrition or microbial imbalances or pH imbalances, too much acid in the mouth.
Wow, okay, that's interesting. So let's break that down. might, obviously the food has a big impact, but how might that start? And then also what kind of testing do you do with like new patients to kind of identify or catch this early?
Yeah, so we're introduced with pathogenic bacteria from our caregivers usually. So a baby's born and they get their microbiome from their moms and their caregivers and that includes the oral microbiome. But what's important to know is that bacterial species of the mouth are transmissible and that includes cavity causing bacteria. So at some point we are inoculated with these bacteria and most of us have been exposed to them and that's okay.
But the issue arises when they get out of control and they overtake and there's more pathogens in the mouth than commensal or healthy bacteria. And so how does this happen? Well, generally it happens from overfeeding them. so pathogenic bacteria love fermentable carbohydrates. What is that? That's ultra processed foods. Those are the crackers and the chips and the granola bars and the pretzels and the fruit snacks and the fruit leathers and of course, soda.
and candy bars, but many people don't realize it's more than sugar. It's flour too, and grains. And so you're overfeeding them. And so the biofilm really gets thick and it sticks to the teeth and it outnumbers your healthy microbes. And as a process of the metabolization of these fermentable carbohydrates, these pathogens release acid. And so it's the acid over time that leeches minerals out of your teeth.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (10:40.034)
that eventually causes a cavity, which really means a whole cavitation. And so that's the process. Now, how do we combat that? Well, of course, we have oral hygiene. But really, the issue is the food. So if you eat a whole food diet, one of vegetables and meats and nuts and seeds and ferments, you'll be at an extremely low risk of dental disease.
And so you can test for this. You can see what your microbe content is like through salivary analysis or oral microbiome testing. The other thing that's important to know is it's not only food, it can be how we're breathing too. And this will be another segue we can get to later on. But mouth breathing will change the pH in the mouth as well, because it dries out the oral mucosa. And so it lowers the pH and it makes it more hospitable for these pathogens also.
So how we're breathing and how we're eating hugely impacts these microbes. But the salivary analysis can tell you where you're standing because sometimes we are still asymptomatic, but we still might be out of balance. And we're learning more and more that some of these pathogens, especially those associated with gum disease and periodontal disease, are being linked to oral systemic issues. And this is where the biohacking element comes in because you could be doing all of these things correctly
But if you have some of these really virulent pathogens like P. gingivalis that is linked to inflammatory Alzheimer's and cognitive decline and heart disease and fertility issues and diabetes and autoimmune diseases and cancers, it's really important to know that. So if you test, you can see what type of species are in your mouth and then work with ideally a functional or biological dentist to determine how do I get my mouth back into balance again.
I love that. How are the bacteria getting in? So are the bacteria basically going through the roots of the teeth and then getting into the bloodstream?
DR. STACI WHITMAN (12:41.838)
Not exactly. can do that. So just like we have leaky gut or intestinal permeability, we can have permeability of the gums. So if you've ever brushed your floss and you spit out pink, we say pink in the sink if your gums are bleeding, that's essentially leaky gums. So that's a way for bacteria to get a free ride through the circulatory system and the lymphatic system.
They also, we're learning, can travel along our nerves. So we have the olfactory nerve and the trigeminal nerve, and this is how perhaps they're getting up through their blood-brain barrier. But they're also releasing endotoxins. So their cell walls, their lipopolysaccharides are very inflammatory and can cause cytokine cascades and inflammation. And so it's their byproducts as well. So it's kind of a one-two punch. And so they end up in places they shouldn't be.
and can wreak havoc on systems downstream. we're learning more and more that the mouth, I mean, we know this, but it's the gateway to the body for a reason. What happens in the mouth doesn't stay in the mouth. And so it's really important to have optimal oral health because it will impact your entire system.
Yeah, I mean, I've been into, you know, like I've had a biological dentist now for years. I had one in Ohio. He was so funny. He would like have a mug and it said like F florid on it and he would drink it. We'll get there. Yes. I know I can't wait because big news on the floor. Yes. But yeah, I mean, it's always something that just made so much sense to me that like we need to be extra careful about it. And it's also so complicated. I can't wait to get there because I mean,
I have quite of a small mouth. I'm thinking about expanding my mouth. There's so many things that are possible. going back to the testing of the oral microbiome, I'm super familiar with gut testing. So I do the GI effects panel. It's super comprehensive. How comprehensive is the oral microbiome test?
DR. STACI WHITMAN (14:40.396)
Great question. There are different companies doing different levels of testing. most commonly, when you go to a dental office who's maybe a little progressive, they're probably using a test that might only be looking for the top 12, 15, maybe 20 pathogens, which is important, but it's not giving you the full spectrum. So there is a test I really like.
That's a, we can put it in the show notes, but it's direct to consumer. dentists are using it too, but it uses shotgun metrogenomics to really do a full sequencing of everything happening in your mouth. And it's not just bacteria. Fungus is a huge component. So candida not only affects gut, it affects our mouth. It can lead to cavities. This is why a lot of young children are getting cavities. We're learning these pathogens work synergistically.
And so that can give you raw data too, and it will give you recommendations as well. And so we are just at the cusp of a lot of this technology, and I think it's just gonna continue to improve, improve as the years go on. A lot of doctors are using AI too for diagnoses of different dental issues and diseases, but the salivary analysis is hugely important.
And I think just like I like to gut map myself annually, sometimes more frequently if I have an issue going on, I suggest that patients start testing the oral microbiome. Because you have to understand too, this is the first passageway into the body. We breathe through there, pathogens can get in, viruses can get in. We have immune cells and a lot of immune response in the mouth.
But if things are out of balance, you're just going to be more susceptible to illness and disease as well. So it's really important to just know what's happening.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (16:29.132)
And then how do you, let's say, you you get the results back and you have an overgrowth of a couple different bacterias. What would, how do you treat that? Like oral probiotics?
Yeah, it depends. There are some that are so virulent you actually should use antibiotics. the testing usually gives you these recommendations. So this is where we don't want to mess around. There are things called spirochetes. And they're literally like little corkscrews. And they can penetrate into tissue and get embedded in there and really cause a lot of problems. So you do want to stay upstream with this and be open to that, if that's what's suggested.
But otherwise, know, prebiotics are hugely important. So we want to feed our good guys. We want to crowd out bad bacteria and create a more optimized environment for commensals or healthy bacteria. So prebiotic fiber is extremely important. There's different prebiotics too, like xylitol. There's a ton of data and research about how that can inhibit the proliferation of pathogens and promote
the beneficial bacteria from proliferating in the mouth. Obviously hygiene is important. So flossing, brushing, tongue scraping, chewing, eating, you know, cruciferous vegetables, leafy greens, like chewing our food is really important as well. We tend to now with these ultra processed foods just inhale our food and that act of chewing is actually quite cleansing because it stimulates salivary flow. Our saliva is hugely
beneficial. It's this golden elixir of our bodies, and I think we take it for granted, but there's a lot of important enzymes in immune cells. So hydration and proper salivary flow is important too. Making sure that we're breathing through our nose. So nasal respiration as opposed to mouth breathing is important, and this is where we'll get more into the airway discussion. But there's many things you can do. Sometimes there's herbal homeopathy.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (18:25.199)
on different dental products that can help modulate the oral microbiome too.
and you would recommend doing that test like once per year.
I would say at least. So if you test and then you don't love the results, you do want to try to make some changes and retest. I usually suggest retesting anywhere from three to six months after you've implemented a protocol.
That's super helpful and what's the name of the test you've
good, I have two of them in my outfit.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (18:55.802)
Yeah, they're wonderful. And they're very user-friendly. Their website and the interface is very user-friendly, too. And they will make recommendations. So I just tested my mother-in-law. there's things we need to work on. But they make recommendations, which is really helpful. Because unfortunately, I do appreciate not everyone maybe has access to a biological or functional dentist and not all dentists.
are doing this testing. And so you can get these results. And then it's like, well, what do I do with this information? But again, I encourage everyone just to be patient. We're in the moment of the movement toward some more of this testing. And I've been attending more functional medicine conferences. And I'll tell you, the oral microbiome is blowing up right now. So it's coming. More resources are coming.
I love that. Why do people, I'm gonna ask you just a couple like quick questions on like some oral issues that have been asked to me. Bad breath, why do people get bad breath? What can they do about it?
Yeah, mean, bad breath definitely is a sign of dysbiosis of the mouth. It can be for many different things. So it could be a sign of untreated cavities. There's a very specific odor that is associated with periodontal disease. And so that's a big deal. That's chronic inflammation in the body. And it's not just staying in the mouth. It's affecting all systems. So a lot of times, you may have active periodontal disease.
And so you want to get that treated. Sometimes it's coming from the dorsum or the tongue surface, which is why I do recommend tongue scraping. But a lot of times the bad breath can be coming from the throat too, and like post-nasal drip and sinuses. And we are learning, you know, a lot of the commensal bacteria in the mouth are actually in the sinuses as well, and that they're very likely communicating with one another as well. So there's bidirectional relationships there also. And so...
DR. STACI WHITMAN (20:55.842)
the importance of sinus hygiene along with oral hygiene. And so what does that mean? Maybe doing some nasal irrigation, just making sure that your allergies are under control, that you have clear nasal passages and patent nasal passages, that your nasal breathing is important. And again, that's a whole other conversation we can get into, but it's really important to know what's happening.
up in the sinus too, because that can lead to bad breath as well. So there could be a few things going on. And so I recommend working with the dental team to try to determine where the bad breath's coming from.
Do you recommend doing the nasal kind of cleansing and any specific protocol? Like should you do it once a week or once a month? know, prophylactically?
Really, I mean, I lean towards having a lot of allergies and kind of sinus issues. So it just feels good for me. And I use saline and I use xylitol. Xylitol will actually promote beneficial bacteria, changes the pH of the sinus to make it less inhabitable for pathogens as well. So you think the mouth is the gateway to the body, but so are the sinuses. And the sinuses, you know, it's the first place where we can trap pathogens.
There's immune cells and mucus and things that are meant to trap debris and allergens and pollutants, but also viruses and bacteria. And so it's important to kind of clean those out, I think, especially as we are living in a more toxic world. You know, we're breathing in things perhaps we weren't many, many years ago. And so it's just nice to stay on top of it. So I do, that is what I do. And if you suffer from sinus issues,
DR. STACI WHITMAN (22:39.7)
I encourage you really to try to find someone to help you because it really will change your life.
Yeah. What is your, so you're doing the saline, what's the mix in the xylitol?
Yeah, they come in pre-formed packets. So XClear is the brand that I really like, and it's pre-mixed saline and xylitol. So I just open it, use distilled water. You want to make sure your water's clean. Yeah, and I just flush, flush away.
Love that. Do you like water picks?
I do. Great question. Yes, in kids, I don't think it's necessary, although I do find a lot of special needs patients have a hard time. They have oral sensory issues, so they have a hard time with traditional floss or floss picks even. They just don't like things like that in their mouth. And so water picks can be helpful in that population. But as we age, all of us will lose a little bit of bone. so traditional floss, it's really, I want people to think of oral hygiene. What is it doing?
DR. STACI WHITMAN (23:42.126)
disrupting the biofilm. It's so nice that we can access the biofilm, which we could in other parts of our bodies, right? So you just don't want any pathogenic bacteria to stick to your teeth long enough to cause problems. So you're disrupting that biofilm through brushing and flossing. So when you traditionally floss, you're kind of scraping the sides of the teeth. And so you're removing that biofilm. But as we age and we start to get a little bone loss, there's a little pocket there and we can't
quite get the bacteria that might be hanging out. And that's where I do love water floss. I personally alternate. So I'll traditional string floss one night, and the next night I water pick. And I usually use distilled water with some baking soda. Baking soda will, it's alkalizing, so it will raise the pH. And pathogens cannot live in that type of environment. You can use a little salt water too for its antiseptic effects.
Now, if you're dealing with oral disease, you may need things that are stronger. There's different essential oils and things that I don't recommend long term, but if you're dealing with an acute issue, there are things that you can do to put in your water pick to help with, let's say, active periodontal disease or gum disease that can help.
That's great. I use Brio Malblush in the Water Pick. Do you like that one? Yeah.
Yeah, that's great. don't, yes, that is great if you have pathogens especially. I don't know if I'd suggest that long term because it is antimicrobial and it's not necessarily selective per se. So I like those in the limited time just while we're dealing with an acute issue. And that is a suggestion I made to my mother-in-law. I love that. Because of her test. yeah, I do love that product.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (25:28.248)
That's great. I'm glad that you told me not to continue to use.
Yeah, or just use it periodically for maintenance. But it's the same with actually coconut oil pulling or I'm trying to think of something else, or essential oils. You really want to be cautious because most of these agents, they're not selective. So they're not just targeting pathogenic bacteria. They can disrupt the beneficial and commensals as well. So you just want to make sure that you're not overdoing it. Our problem is that we've been
carpet bombing our mouths. Everyone's seen the phrase, kills 99.9 % of germs. That is what has gotten us into trouble. We don't want to kill our healthy bacteria. We want to think of feeding and nourishing the good bacteria instead of just focusing on killing the bad bacteria. If there are too many good bacteria in the mouth, there won't be room for the bad bacteria. So we really want to be cautious with these strong agents and astringents.
One reason too, perhaps you've seen on social a lot of people speaking about research with strong alcohol-based or astringent-based mouthwashes. So we want to avoid those because there are studies that show that it's killing off important bacteria that influence nitric oxide production. And nitric oxide is very important for cardiovascular health. And so using these agents can lead to issues with blood pressure and heart.
heart issues, cardiac issues too. Something people maybe have been recommended by their dentist is a mouthwash called chlorhexidine that's actually not allowed to be used in the EU because it is so damaging, but still unfortunately we're using it here and that's when I take strong caution with it. I really believe it's doing more harm than good. It's just, it's too much. And the problem is just like if anyone's used Roundup in their garden, which hopefully nobody has, but this is just an example.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (27:23.198)
If you use a weed killer, what grows back first? The weeds. So these pathogens are extremely virulent and they're more resilient. And so if you carpet bomb the mouth, they tend to come back bigger and badder and not as many commensals. So it just is this vicious cycle. And so again, focusing on our diet, whole food diet, prebiotics, oral probiotics.
feeding the good bacteria and using things to help modulate the microbiome that way is more important and it's more positive too than just trying to kill cancer.
Yeah. What do you think about, so I'm assuming this should also be done in moderation. I'm doing oil pulling with ozone. What do you think about that?
I would say moderation too. Ozone generally is fairly selective and leans more towards targeting pathogens, but some commensals are impacted too. yeah, I use ozone at my office for a lot. use gas and water and oil, but I would just use that for maintenance, sparingly, not every day. But it would be interesting for you to test your microbiome just to see where you're at, just to have a baseline.
Well, it's interesting because I was, my listeners already know this, but I got the X-Plant, which I had to go on antibiotics. So was kind of this interesting like test for me because I went from having one of the best GI effects we've ever seen. was like all zeros. It was a two one dysbiosis, which I feel like it's almost impossible to get a zero one dysbiosis, because there's always gonna be something. But it was a great test. And I was like, okay, here's where I'm starting from. Let's see what antibiotics really do. And they really did wiped it out.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (29:03.438)
Yeah, wiped it out.
So I'm in like the rebuilding of the gut microbiome, but with that, I'm sure my oral microbiome has also been impacted.
It does. A lot of times patients will, I'll get calls like patients have been put on oral antibiotics and their teeth have staining and the parents will call or adults and they said, is all this gray stain? And it's because your oral microbiome has been changed. So, but usually, you know, if you focus on re-populating.
know, really high quality spore-based oral probiotics, probiotics, sorry, gut probiotics. There are oral probiotics too that I really like can help and then focusing on diet. It takes time, but you know, we're happy to have these tools when we need them, but obviously using them sparingly. And I definitely think especially the dental industry is overdoing the antibiotic prescriptions. You know, the standards have changed. We're really not supposed to be prescribing antibiotics.
for anything unless there's facial cellulitis or facial swelling or it's an issue that can't be resolved fairly timely or quickly. so, but unfortunately, dentists are still writing antibiotics kind of willy-nilly just for toothaches and things, and that's really against the standard now.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (30:23.054)
Wow, that's super interesting. Okay, what about canker sores?
Aptis ulcers. So there's a genetic component for sure, and it can be stress related. So you just have to see like, is it midterms? Are you getting a new job? Has life been stressful? It could be that. Oftentimes it can be a sign of nutritional deficiencies. So B vitamins, zinc, think of your minerals can impact that. Your oral health care products can lead to oral ulcers. So sodium lauryl sulfate.
SLS is a foaming agent in toothpaste and we really don't want our toothpaste to foam or burn. know, so many of us want that super strong minty mint so it hurts and that foaming effect. And it's just like we're moving away from shampoo that foams and know, cleansing our hair and our skin so frequently. It's the same with the mouth.
So SLS, it really strips the oral mucosa and it can affect the oral microbiome too and it can lead to oral ulcers. So if you're getting them a lot, look at your toothpaste and does it have SLS? I would caution you. There are some quote unquote cleaner toothpastes that are using like coconut derived foaming agents and some people are still sensitive to those. So I would just take caution with those. But the big one I think of when someone's getting recurrent ulcers is their gut.
It's one tube, and so if we're seeing things in the mouth, I'm always thinking, well, what's happening to the rest of the system? And we do see a strong correlation in the research with oral ulcers in celiac disease or gluten sensitivity, even IBS too. So it's really important to make sure that you're working with someone knowledgeable who can help unpack some of these things for you. Another thing with gluten intolerance in celiac are just cavities.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (32:17.902)
You know, you're generally nutrient deficient when you have these issues. And so your teeth are not as mineralized. Your teeth are really vulnerable to cavities and decay. So if you keep having recurring dental issues and even, you know, paired with oral ulcers, I'd really look toward your gut health.
In terms of remineralization, obviously introducing more minerals into our food or our diet, but that's so difficult because the soil is so depleted, right? So I'm actually right here. I just made this decision the other day. had my friend, Dr. Casey Means over. She's amazing. Amazing. Love your work. yeah, she's great. And she started growing all over her own food and just raised beds. cool. And so I think I'm gonna start doing that because
she's like reminded me and inspired me that it's not only just like the quality of the soil and the nutrient lacking in the soil, but also like when you pick the food and it's just being shipped, know, even if you're going to the best grocery store, I mean, we have some of the best, most expensive organic grocery stores out here in LA, but it's like, I honestly just wanna grow my own food because I still, I do, do, you know, I'm sure you know, but like thousands of biomarkers, I know every single thing about myself and I do NutriEval. And it's like, my diet is,
probably I would say one of the best diets that you could ever have in terms of trying to hit proper nutrients, but I'm still, you know, sometimes running low on things and the NutriVal. So it's like, yeah, it's because, and I'm getting the best quality food. So anyways, I'm just like, I'm gonna start growing my food.
foods to efficient.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (33:49.046)
Yeah, you should. it is the soil health. I mean, we know that. mineral deficiencies, specifically magnesium, copper, zinc. This is where regenerative farming comes in. So you can be a little chemist with your soil. That would be really interesting to see. I have a friend that's actually in regenerative farming. And he's currently in a research project where he's actually testing the mineral content of
vegetables in different soil environments. And I think others are doing this too. But it's interesting to think about. So unfortunately, I think we need a supplement, know? And supplement with minerals. And minerals are critical for your teeth. Your teeth are made of minerals, calcium and phosphorus, and fat soluble vitamins too. know, vitamin D, D3, K2, vitamin A, vitamin E. These are all very important for dental and facial and skeletal development.
So there are some supplements that I really like patients on for optimal oral health and they definitely include a high quality D3K2. You I think you need to know your levels, please test. I think it's incredibly important. But again, if you have a lot of dental issues recurring, you're like, I brush, I floss, I eat healthy. What's your vitamin D? There's so much research about vitamin D deficiency and oral health issues.
And I like magnesium blends for a multitude of reasons, but it really helps with dental health as well. And then minerals too. mean, just a general really high quality trace of minerals is important.
of that, how many, so I have the trace minerals here and I obviously put it in my water. Is that what you're doing? Yeah. How many glasses of water are you like adding minerals to?
DR. STACI WHITMAN (35:31.822)
I just do it when I think of it. I mean, a few times a day, you know, because I'm drinking like element and taking my magnesium and I do have a trace mineral capsule too. Nice. I test, so I'm doing okay. You know, I know where I'm at, so I'm not quite as on top of my labs as I know you are, but I do stay on top of it. It's something that's...
Yeah, okay.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (35:46.722)
Love that love element.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (35:59.244)
I'm very passionate about, and so I test myself usually quarterly. And so that's important to know. So if you're having dental issues, and this includes gum disease. So if you have gum disease, periodontal disease, are you getting enough vitamin C? We all remember scurvy. The sailors were losing their teeth. It's a vitamin C deficiency. B vitamin deficiencies are really important for gum disease and bone disease. And again, these trace minerals, protein, we're protein deficient too.
Everything that you speak to with longevity and biohacking, it relates back to the mouth too, which is cool. But the one thing that's missing, I think, is the salivary analysis, which I think is really important to know because, again, you can have these pathogens, these spirochetes, these anirolids in your mouth, and maybe you haven't seen the clinical manifestation yet.
but they're there. And so we don't want them to end up in our brain or our heart. We want to catch them before they become an issue. So this is where testing can be really important.
I love that. What was your favorite toothpaste?
I'm biased because I had my own time.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (37:07.703)
Yes, all right. Well your toothpaste will definitely link that. I mean you probably made it because there wasn't a better one in the market. I did.
This is right you pay.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (37:15.916)
I did. That is absolutely correct. I've been speaking to all of this for years and years and years, and we just launched eight months ago, so it's pretty new. But it's called FIG, Feed Your Good Guys. Love That was intentional because we're oral microbiome focused. Love it. So there's prebiotics and amino acids, which have been shown in the data to modulate the oral microbiome, and it's a proprietary blend. We also use remineralizing agents, and we've taken out all the emulsifiers and surfactants.
I love that.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (37:45.388)
disruptors. So that's my favorite. There's others out there too. I I think you really, I think most of us should look for a remineralizer. Most of us don't eat super clean. know, we are in an exceptional world with the health and wellness community, but most humans are eating not well. And so they need a little boost of remineralization, unfortunately.
So you wanna look for a remineralizer, but just be very cautious of some of these strong agents, the SLS, the emulsifier surfactants, strong essential oils. You know, what type of sweeteners are they using? It's just important to know, so, but yeah. There's other brands too, like like Risewell Pro is one I really like. I think Boca's pretty decent, David's.
They're using nanohydroxyapatite, which I'm a fan of. I think there will be more more oral microbiome-focused toothpaste out there. Because also, we know it can modulate. I spoke to you earlier about nitric oxide. It's really important. And so we can get into that more. But cardiovascular health and oral health are strongly tied. And so your toothpaste can influence that, too.
Interesting, is the correlation so tight because mostly of the nitric oxide?
Yeah, it's the bacteria in the dorsum of the tongue. And so if you're using toothpaste with oral microbiome disruptors, they're very likely targeting and taking down some of these healthy microbes on the dorsum of the tongue too that are responsible for the nitrate-nitrite reduction pathway leading to nitric oxide production, which is really important. It's also important for muscle synthesis and cardiovascular health and immune health.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (39:36.558)
in inflammation too. So that's another thing I really like patients, adult patients knowing is their nitric oxide status as well. There's different tasks. It's usually a little spit test that will tell you almost like a keto strip, like a little strip. And then there's really cool companies doing wonderful things in this area.
How do you test that?
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (40:01.538)
Hi guys, I'm going to interrupt this episode for a brief announcement. As you may or may not know, I started a community for females, by females, and it's a female longevity optimization community. This is a place that you can connect with like-minded women. We are all here to support each other and there's a variety of different benefits to being a member. You get a monthly ask me anything, so submit your questions and I'll answer them directly. We also have an entire library of courses on
all of the important components of longevity such as labs, nutrition, exercise, sleep optimization, longevity optimization protocols that I'm doing along with real time updates to my personal protocols. There are so many benefits of being a member of the community. We'll also be doing in-person live events here in California and virtual events for anyone that can't attend. But if you're interested in joining the community, I would absolutely love to see you there and I will include a link in the show notes.
You can boost nitric oxide with leafy greens and beetroot, know, nitrate-rich foods and supplements too, but also prebiotics are really important and so there's people working on proprietary blends to help boost the bacteria that produce nitric oxide as well.
Well, you'll have to send me some of your toothpaste so can try it. Yay, it didn't open it. That's so exciting. Thank you. For sure. Are there any, this is a little bit of a sidebar, but I get asked all the time about nitric oxide supplementation. Yeah. Are there any brands that you like and actually work?
in your gift
DR. STACI WHITMAN (41:34.606)
My fit strip is one, I don't mean to discourage people from using other brands, but my fit strip is one that I've been pretty impressed with the data. There are others out there that I just don't think are working.
That's been my feeling. Yeah, I mean, I just heard a lot that they don't really work
They don't really work. Yeah, I think there's room for improvement in the marketplace, but I know people are working on it. It's a big conversation that's happening at conferences. So that's what I'm keeping a close eye on is the research from that company.
that. Real quick floss. I mean, it's crazy that everything is like toxic for some is like, okay, well, we have to have a specific floss brand that is approved by Dr. Stacey because so what's the floss brand?
Yeah. So you really want silk or bamboo. Even there's brands out there. I know a lot about floss because I actually created a compostable, sustainable floss pick that hasn't quite gone to market yet. That's great. Yeah. We'll see where that goes. So I know a lot more about this than I probably should. But a lot of floss is greenwashed, so be careful, because a lot of it is coated.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (42:53.196)
Like the actual floss fiber itself might be clean, but then they coat it in either petroleum based products or we know we're all talking about PFAS and microplastics and things too. So just be cautious with what you use. So I'm very clearly stating here, I would only use silk or bamboo floss. A lot of the expandable floss that I love, I love it. It does a great job, but they're not, they're just not clean.
They're just not clean. There's like polyesters and plastics and derivatives in it that I'd be cautious with. So that's what I'd use. And plus they're compostable. They're biodegradable, which is really nice too. Silk or bamboo.
That's great. Yeah, because you can't imagine like putting something with microplastics like up into the gum. that's just, it's just, it's so irritating.
or water floss.
how much work you have to do. Like every single thing that you do in your entire life has to be questioned. It's so annoying.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (43:52.0)
maddening. know. I know. But we are working on a clean floss too. that. It's coming. Stay tuned.
He's keeping me up in a place. will. All right. Well, here's the big one. The big one. Fluoride. Something massive just came out.
Yeah, I was elated last night. I actually thought it was emotional last night. Happy tears. So with the fluoride discussion, I think it's very important to separate topical fluoride from systemic. Topical means toothpaste, rinses, varnishes, and systemic means water fluoridation, supplementation. I have opinions about both, but let's just focus on systemic right now.
Water fluoridation, I have concerns with it. I was traditionally trained, I really like to share this story. I was a traditionally trained dentist who was on the fluoride bandwagon. In fact, there is no fluoride in Portland, Oregon where I live and practice. And I think it was 2013, it was on the ballot to be put into the water and I was picketing the pro-fluoride group. And I fully admit,
I had not read any research about it. I had just taken what I was taught in school and the cherry picked studies that they showed us and believed everyone needs fluoride, teeth need fluoride. Take a number, take your fluoride. And I remember I was back, it was when I was in residency and I was back in our conference room and I was eating lunch and one of my professors came in who was very pro-fluoride.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (45:31.424)
And he looked like a deer in headlights, and he sat down, and he had just been at a debate downtown where it was someone in group in support of Florida, water fluoridation, the group that was opposed to it. And he says the first time he never heard the other side. It was the first time he had heard what the opposition had to say. And he had always assumed it was the tin hat group brigade, and they were just the woo-woos and conspiracy theorists. And he actually said, no, these were
highly intelligent epidemiologists, endocrinologists, neuroscientists, dentists, researchers, toxicologists, and he had never heard the other side and was presented with some research to look and I was blown away. And so I started digging into the research and then my mind changed almost instantly once I started reading some of the research with the concerns of excessive systemic fluoride.
and that it is considered a neurotoxin. So everyone's gonna say the dose makes the poison, and that is true, but what we don't have studies on is the bioaccumulation effects of it, and there's never been a safety study on water fluoridation. It was grandfathered in before evidence-based medicine or science, and so this is where there is a federal lawsuit on the people versus the EPA.
and it's out of San Francisco. It's been going on since 2020. And that's what this lawsuit is about. And the people are challenging the EPA to say, show us the data that this is safe. Where's your long-term safety study? There aren't any. And so the trial on the expert witnesses all testified in February, and we've been waiting for the judge to make his ruling. And the judge has been waiting for the National Toxicology
Programs report now the NTP is part it's a division of the Department of Health and Human Services And they've had this report for a while and it was kept under lock and key and so the judge in this trial I'm under the Freedom of Information Act mandated that it be released and it was released last year and the conclusion was based on the lack of safety data They the NTP. This is our government agency cannot advocate for water fluoridation currently
DR. STACI WHITMAN (47:58.062)
because of all the concerns with neurotoxicity and IQ reduction. The ADA, the American Dental Association, was very upset. And they demanded, along with the EPA in this trial, that it be re-examined, edited, and they want a final monograph presented. So we've been waiting for that for over a year. And it was released yesterday.
Wow.
And what did it say? It said the same thing it said before, that based on very high quality studies, they looked at over 70 studies, determined that 19 of them were extremely high quality. That doesn't mean the others were terrible. It just means that 19 were high, high quality. Of those 19 studies, 18 showed an inverse relationship between fluoride exposure.
and IQ reduction. That means the more fluoride you are exposed to, the lower the IQ in the child. so there's multiple studies showing this. And to me, think 18 studies is enough to be questioning water fluoridation. I mean, what else do we need to see? The burden of proof should be on the safety. We're one of the last countries to still fluoridate our water. I think a lot of people do not realize that. Only 3 % of the developed world still fluoridates. In the United States, we're very into our fluoride.
So my argument to Janice is, you know, okay, you're really into teeth and the effects of fluorid on teeth, but what about the whole system? And so it's impacting IQ in children. And so this is really affecting women who are pregnant and infants may be drinking fluoridated formula, right? Plus you're cooking with it, you're brushing your teeth with it. How do we determine the dose? And it's all based on patient weight,
DR. STACI WHITMAN (49:53.262)
their adipose system, how quickly do they excrete toxins? know, fluoride isn't completely excreted through the kidneys, only about 50 % is excreted in adults, and as little as 20 % is excreted in children. And so it does bioaccumulate in calcifying tissues. That includes teeth, but also bone, the pineal gland. You know, long-term, are we, if we're mass-medicating a population, how are we deciding the dose?
It's also in pharmaceuticals. So you may drink a liter of water a day, and I may drink five liters of water a day. I will be exposed to a lot more fluoride than you will. And the same goes for children and pregnant moms. And then on top of that, I'm taking prescription medications that have fluoride in them. And I'm eating ultra processed foods which have fluoride in them. It helps with bioavailability. And it's a lot of SSRIs and mood.
do why do the medications and
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (50:52.142)
Yeah, and they're adding fluoride to the food because of water and the uptake.
Yes, the water in these, they're not filtering their water in these factories. So if you're eating, you know, canned soup or anything with water as an ingredient, it could be overrated. Plus you might be cooking with it, you're showering in it, you're bathing with it. So that's the concern, you know, and then the window of the therapeutic dose in the window of toxicity is very narrow. So this is seen at levels of 1.5 milligrams per liter. That is where it's showing a toxic effect.
Most municipalities are supposed to be fluoridating at 0.7 milligrams per liter. So that's pretty narrow, as you can see. That's the difference between one liter of water and two liters of water a day. And that's just water. That's not including children swallowing toothpaste and eating it from other sources, drinking processed drinks. Black tea has fluoride in it. So the whole point is the judge should be ruling soon.
We hope we follow suit to other countries, especially European countries who dropped fluoride years ago. There's also a medical ethical issue too, that we're kind of mass medicating people without their consent. And the other thing to think about is this has been shown in the data and they're teaching this in dental schools that fluoride really works topically, not systemically. So if you really want fluoride in your life, just brush with it. It can make teeth more acid resistant.
I personally do not use any fluoride because I'm just trying to eliminate as many toxins from my environment as possible. My kids have never used it. Their teeth are beautiful. And it's because I know cavities are not from lack of fluoride. No one's fluoride deficient. This is where the messaging is incorrect. So many patients think...
DR. STACI WHITMAN (52:46.87)
You know, I got cavities because I stopped using fluoride. No, you didn't. You got cavities because you're in dysbiosis. Your oral microbiome's off. Your mouth breathing. There's something off with your gut. You're snacking too much. Your diet isn't ideal. Those are the real issues. So fluoride's a band-aid to make up for deficiencies in other aspects of our life. And there are certain populations, I think, that could benefit from topical fluoride because they're just not
They can't get nanohydroxyapatite or it's too expensive. But I just think my feeling is we need to get it out of our water. And the NTP report really solidified that yesterday. it's pretty monumental. It was a very big deal. For those of us who have been speaking about it for a while, we've really been villainized. I've had a lot of people attack me over it and speak negatively about me.
And it's simply, I've just been bringing up the research that people don't want to talk about, you know? And so I just think, again, when we're talking about our children, and I'm seeing kids in my chair get sicker and sicker, and I'm seeing them have more behavioral issues, more ADHD, and more sensory issues, you I have to look at the environment and say what...
What are we doing? You know, and I can fix a tooth. If your child gets a cavity, I can fix their tooth for them. I can't fix their brain. The other thing to know is the data shows that even topical fluoride, it really only is reducing cavities by half a cavity per patient. And the other thing to know is that when you look at the World Health Organization data and you plot the chart of how
cavities have been decreasing in fluoridated communities. It's been at the exact same rate as unfloridated communities. So cavities are just decreasing probably because of education, access to care. People know more about the dangers of sugar and soda and brushing and flossing. So you have to look at all of this data before making an opinion, I feel.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (55:03.862)
But people get real heated. I mean, it's like talking about religion or politics. It's been very hard to just have calm conversations about it. So for people that are interested, I encourage you to read the NTP report. I encourage you to follow the fluoride trial. There's a whole breakdown of it on Fluoride Action Network. And it really reads like a soap opera. I mean, it's pretty interesting if you're into this stuff.
You know, it's important. This could be a big moment in our country to do what I believe will be right for long-term human health and the health of our children.
I'm so excited to see what happens. I have not used fluoride, I mean, in so many years. I'm definitely not getting fluoride in my water, because it's all like the reverse osmosis or spring. So I'm really glad that this just came out, but also that you're here to help set the record straight, you know?
Yeah, just think we need science changes. know, we used to think fluoride was put in the water based on observation. That is important to know, too. There was not any scientific study back in the 1940s. was simply a gentleman in Colorado found his patients had fewer cavities and harder, quote unquote, harder teeth. And they had a really high level of fluoride in their natural spring there. And so.
It just went rampant from there. And so they put it in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and it just took off from there. But there never was data to support its safety. I mean, that would never happen nowadays. Well, we hope it wouldn't. Another thing that's interesting. But the point is, I think people are just so impassioned and ingrained that it's fluoride or nothing. But I also haven't used it.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (56:40.238)
Well, yeah
DR. STACI WHITMAN (56:53.486)
I haven't used it since college. I mean, it's been a long time. And big shocker, I haven't had a cavity since I was eight years old. I mean, I'm not an anomaly. It's because I focus on all the things I spoke about, my hydration, how I eat, how I breathe, my hygiene, those things. And my kids are cavity free too without it.
I love it. I want to talk about like the shape of our head and what's happened. Wisdom, teeth, you know, all the things like what's going on with our structure of our faces, our jaws, our mouths. Yeah.
They're shrinking. So I'll start this out. If this interests you, there's a wonderful book called Breath by James Nestor. I highly recommend everyone read that. He makes this topic so interesting, so sexy, when it could be pretty boring. But OK, so what has happened?
So we are dis-evolving as he has coined and others too. And so human faces are shrinking. Our jaws are shrinking, our palates are becoming really narrow, our jaws are becoming recessed, our sinuses are shrinking. And the question is, well, why? And so most anthropologists believe it's because when our food system changed about 13,000 years ago, not only did we get cavities, but these milled
grains and flowers and things, they don't need to be chewed that much. so it's the lack of chewing that has changed our facial structure. So form follows function. So when you chew, there is an outward force that goes out. And this starts with actually breastfeeding. The tongue elevates. It lateralizes. And it's actually spreading the palate. It's spreading the midface and the maxilla.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (58:53.43)
and it's part of the growth and development process. And then comes chewing. And so what have we done? Well, our babies aren't being introduced to whole foods and chewing. And now they're being spoon fed with purees and pouches and meltsy cracker cereals. So this is where the baby led weaning movement has come in on.
and obviously work with someone knowledgeable about this, you know, but I think we are living in a little too much fear about some of these exposures to foods and chewing and choking, but you need to follow rules, so work with your pediatrician. But anyway, so the lack of chewing has impacted us. Now, other things that have impacted us is the change in our microbiome. So our gut microbiome has changed when we track our microbiomes ancestrally.
we don't have as many commensal healthy bacteria as we used to. What does that mean? Well, we know allergies and asthma and eczema are highly linked to dysbiosis in the gut. What does that do? Well, if you have chronic allergies or asthma, you probably have inflammation in the sinus. So it's harder to nasal breathe. So you become a chronic mouth breather. Chronic mouth breathing not only impacts how much oxygen you're getting,
you get about 20 % less oxygen when you breathe through your mouth, which is a significant amount when you're developing a brain as a child. It can impact your hormones and how you get into deep sleep. But also, it creates tonsil inflammation and adenoid inflammation. So it creates this vicious cycle. And so chronic mouth breathing actually changes.
how your jaw grows, your mouth's open, your condyle rotates down, so your jaw tends to grow long down and out, and your tongue hangs low, so you're not getting that upward tongue posture and lateralization that's helped spreading the palate and growing the mid-face. Now you have narrow sinuses, which just is this perpetual issue. So mouth breathing begets mouth breathing. And so that is...
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:01:07.918)
is the issue. Unfortunately, this has been generational and epigenetic because I get asked a lot, if my child is choose a lot, can I correct these imbalances? And there are things you can do to stay ahead of it, but you're very unlikely to change a significant alteration in your gene lineage if you just have small narrow jaws or a recessed chin. But what you can do is work with a functional dentist who can intervene early.
to help with growth modification of your child. And this is where early functional orthodontics comes in. And so we can impact that and hopefully avoid jaw surgery and braces and the pulling of adult teeth, which just makes a small jaw smaller. So there are interventions, but you do really need to be working with someone who's trained in this. We're not taught anything of this in dental school. And the reason I became
passionate about it, it was with my own daughter. So she had a missed tongue tie, a posterior tongue tie. And posterior means it just, it's kind of buried, it's hard to diagnose, but she had a really hard time latching and breastfeeding. We did do it. It was really hard for me. But she was a chronic mouth breather and I didn't even notice it. But now I look back at every single photo of her, her mouth's open.
wow. And I didn't even notice it then. It's just you think it's normal, but really open mouth posture, any amount of mouth breathing or snoring is a red flag. unless of course you're sick, but snoring is not cue, it's not normal. It's extremely common, but if your child is snoring or your partner or your friend, that is a sign that there's obstruction. And it may not be.
complete diagnosed obstructive sleep apnea, it may be dysregulated breathing or sleep disorder breathing. these airway issues are in a continuum. know, obstructive sleep apnea is end stage disease. So just like anything, we want to catch it before it gets to that point. But airway is a big deal, you know, and so it can get kind of overwhelming. There's a wonderful book for parents called Sleep Wrecked Kids that I highly recommend. It's by Sharon Moore.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:03:22.478)
And if your child suffers from these issues, I suggest you read it, because it will really help you become an advocate for your child. introducing breastfeeding, number one, if you can, and it resonates with you, is optimal. It's also great for oral microbiome establishment and immune health and bonding and a whole other slew of wonderful things. But introducing whole foods, encouraging your children to chew.
I make sure my kids always are eating whole carrots and apples and really crunchy thing, chewy meats and not these go-gurts and these things that you just inhale. That's going to help with gut health too. Checking for ties that get messed, but also knowing, nasal clearing is important. sleeping, sleep hygiene is important. So a high quality air filter, making sure the humidity is the appropriate level, a cool room.
my
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:04:18.638)
Making sure you're dusting, not too much clutter around the bedroom because pet dander allowing pets in the room, but also dust mites are big culprits for sinus inflammation. But it's really important too in the nasal clearing too. So again, I had mentioned that xylitol saline rinse with kids, that same brand XClear makes a much easier little spray that you can use.
And then if your child does have issues, trying to find someone that can help to intervene early, because just like anything, the sooner we intervene, the better the long-term outcome will be.
And so if you have, I mean, obviously like when I have children, we'll be seeing a biological dentist to be texting you a ton. But because I know that my palate's actually a bit smaller than I would like it to be ideally. So I've explored a few options in terms of that and I'll have to get your advice as well. I mean, everything from, you know, an expander, but that would take like years. And then I was even told there's like a surgery and you can separate it. But with kids, I would assume it's much easier to resolve that.
So we have a suture along our palate and in children it's just it's all cartilage so you can really manipulate it easily. Around the age of 10 generally girls are a little bit sooner that does start to calcify and a lot of facial and jaw growth is done. So there's a phrase now fixed by six, six years old. Now that doesn't I don't want people to panic that doesn't mean like everything needs to be corrected but it means we should be intervening.
you know, traditional orthodontics, say, oh, I don't even need to see your child till they're seven. And then a lot of times they like to wait until all the baby teeth fall out. And then by that time you're 12 or 13, your jaws and face are pretty much ungrowing. And so now you're just moving teeth. You're not changing the underlying architecture and bone structure. So you really want to intervene early.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:06:13.79)
and manipulate facial development and jaw development because if you change the foundation or architecture, you create bigger, wider jaws that's creating more volume for airway but also now more space for the teeth to come in straight. And this is something when we look back anthropologically, Dr. Western Price did a lot of research here, ancestral tribes. I you look at these skulls of these humans or these tribes and their teeth are the...
beautiful wide arches and straight teeth and no cavities. They don't have dentists worth it on it. So what gives? This is how humans had evolved. We were supposed to have jaws that lined up and teeth that came in straight. We're the only species that has crowding. If you think about that, the wolf in the woods doesn't need braces, you know? So what has happened? And it is our food system. It's how we're chewing. It's how we're breathing.
So intervening early, yes, it's very easy with kids. They used to say with adults you needed double jaw surgery or jaw surgery. But now there's different ways to expand. We are learning you can manipulate the suture in adults through different appliances. I'm also considering doing something like that too. We'll talk later.
Yeah, I'm excited. mean, I wasn't sure like to go. What's a Marpie? Do you know what is that?
I'm not familiar with that one. It's some type of appliance. The MSC is what I've been seeing really great results with, with maxillary skeletal expansion. They put these little teeny mini screws in your palate and it sounds worse than it actually is. You actually, you can separate the suture. And then there are testimonials of patients that are doing it. My best friend does a lot of these back in Portland. Maybe you'll fly up and see her. She's amazing.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (01:07:49.228)
Yeah, you.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (01:07:54.094)
Nice.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:08:04.012)
But it usually happens in the middle of the night. And so she's been asking patients to record themselves. You literally feel it. And there's this surge of energy, most of them explain, through their body. And a lot of them will get very emotional, almost like a release, which makes sense, because it's impacting your vagus nerve and kind of your sympathetic nervous system as well. And I want to talk to that, to speak to that too.
But anyway, they'll do these testimonials, and it's really emotional to watch. And they'll just say, oh my gosh, I can breathe through my nose for the first time ever. So it can be profoundly helpful in life changing for a lot of patients. My mouth tends to pop open at night too. And mine is a jaw relationship issue. And so I do mouth tape or lip tape, which I'm a huge fan of. And I think that's a nice little hack or strategy if you don't want to undergo.
some of these more invasive procedures. It works for me. You just want to make sure you can breathe through your nose. You have nasal patency, and you can breathe through your nose for three or four minutes. If you can't and you feel panicked, then you probably shouldn't do it. And you should try to figure out what's going on. But regarding the sympathetic comment, so unfortunately, a lot of the children with these airway issues, they get pegged and diagnosed with ADHD. It's important to know.
when you're chronically mouth breathing, you're generally not getting into deep stages of sleep. And so that can impact hormone release. It can impact growth hormone release. A lot of these children tend to be small stature, almost failure to thrive. They also might have prolonged nocturnal urinesis or their bedwetting kind of late. And that's because antidiuretic hormone is released in these deeper stages of sleep. But also you have to think if you're obstructing
constantly through the night, you are going to be sympathetically overdriven. That's like almost like choking in your sleep constantly and you're waking up. And you can see this, you know, in sleep studies, but so these kids are in this chronic sleep deprived state, their hormones are a mess, their microbiomes are a mess because mouth breathing impacts your oral and gut microbiome, but also they're sympathetically overdriven. And so
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:10:25.378)
They tend to be anxious. They don't like loud noises. You'll start seeing kind of ADHD tendencies. And in children, when they're chronically sleep deprived, they get hyperactive. know, adults get exhausted, cranky, moody. With Fargec, the opposite happens with kids. And so one of the first things we should be doing in children who have suspected ADHD or anxiety or just behavioral changes, I believe, is to do a sleep study.
Sorry, not a sleep study, sleep screening, a sleep screening and an airway screening.
that's so important and valuable information. If someone has sleep apnea, obviously we know that there's a correlation between weight also and sleep apnea, right? But what about if you're at a healthy weight and you still have sleep apnea, what can you do about it? Would widening your mouth a bit help?
Yeah, we need to understand the root, the underlying root cause. Most of the time, I would say yes, it's a structural issue. You need to determine if it's a soft tissue issue or a hard tissue issue or both. So it can be a muscle tone issue too. Do you have low muscle tone in the muscles that are needed to keep your lips closed all night, your tongue elevated and suctioned up to your palate? Your tongue's a muscle. So just like resistance training, if you're not working it out, it can get weak.
and low tone. And this is where my functional therapists come in and they can help strengthen these muscles that are important for keeping lips closed and nasal breathing and nasal respiration. But you know the underlying issue. The important thing to know too as women, a lot of women have undiagnosed airway issues. And while we don't get
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:12:07.918)
We don't have necessarily obstructive sleep apnea per se. Many of us might have sleep disorder breathing. And you can be a very thin, fit, petite woman and still have sleep disorder breathing. And we see an uptick in this during perimenopause and menopause too due to hormonal fluctuations and changes with inflammation and soft tissue changes too. So it's important to ask your partners or your friends, know,
how did I sleep? Breathing should be silent. really should. We should be silent sleepers. Breathing should be silent and peaceful and this really beautiful process and not loud or people that are choking and asphyxiating. You know that sound. We've all have heard it. And it just impacts long-term health and longevity. It's hard on the heart and the cardiovascular system.
and microbiome and inflammation and immune health and mood too. And so it can impact weight gain and all kinds of things. So sleep is so foundational, but also how are you breathing when you sleep?
Wow. I mean, this is just, this has been like a masterclass. I love it. On oral health. mean, it's been such a pleasure to have you. I know. I'm so excited about our new friendship. You have to move out to LA now. I love it. I'm working. Good. Good. Thank you. you so much. This podcast is for informational purposes only and views expressed on this podcast are not medical advice.
Kayla, you're the best.
DR. STACI WHITMAN (01:13:29.07)
I'm working on it. Working on it. But I'll fly down a lot.
KAYLA BARNES-LENTZ (01:13:42.594)
This podcast, including Kayla Barnes, does not accept responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of the information contained herein. Opinions of their guests are their own, and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein.
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